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Things I Maybe Should Not Say

 
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Things I Maybe Should Not Say Reply with quote

Marty tells me he is no longer doing puzzles, and so is not participating in the Forum. I'll miss him. He has been the mainstay here for many years.

Helmut does not want to host a discussion forum, so I think this is the best we have. I find the discussions about his puzzles very interesting.

Helmut also has a tool, Helmut's Sudoku Helper (HSH), that he does not want me to talk about. You get to it by clicking on the First Aid icon for any puzzle on his site. It is interesting in that
1. It can automate basics. Do all the basic moves, and stop when an advanced move is needed. Very good for checking your work before posting a puzzle.
2. It gives you a list and diagrams for possible moves but does not suggest the next move. That is very good for when you have solved a puzzle and want to explore alternative paths. Or, again, check your work.

HSH can post a puzzle in the computer clipboard, you should play with that. It can also accept links from outside puzzle sources, similar to Draw/Play. The links he makes are not accepted by Draw/Play due to problems here, not there.

Keith
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enxio27



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Things I Maybe Should Not Say Reply with quote

keith wrote:
Marty tells me he is no longer doing puzzles, and so is not participating in the Forum. I'll miss him. He has been the mainstay here for many years.

That's sad to read. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
Helmut does not want to host a discussion forum, so I think this is the best we have. I find the discussions about his puzzles very interesting.

There is another forum, more active than this one, that Helmut is a member of (under the name Nataraj). The forum is called The New Sudoku Players' Forum and can be found at http://forum.enjoysudoku.com . It's run by Jason Linhart and has archives of other forums and resources that have gone off the Web. I have no intention of stealing traffic from here, but if this forum dies, also, there is an alternative.

HTH
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Things I Maybe Should Not Say Reply with quote

enxio27 wrote:
keith wrote:
Marty tells me he is no longer doing puzzles, and so is not participating in the Forum. I'll miss him. He has been the mainstay here for many years.

That's sad to read. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
Helmut does not want to host a discussion forum, so I think this is the best we have. I find the discussions about his puzzles very interesting.

There is another forum, more active than this one, that Helmut is a member of (under the name Nataraj). The forum is called The New Sudoku Players' Forum and can be found at http://forum.enjoysudoku.com . It's run by Jason Linhart and has archives of other forums and resources that have gone off the Web. I have no intention of stealing traffic from here, but if this forum dies, also, there is an alternative.

HTH


HTH,

I have pointed that out before. In my opinion, the discussion is much less courteous, and it is dominated by computer programmers to whom everything is an AIC.

Keith
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nataraj



Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 1048
Location: near Vienna, Austria

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very sorry to hear that Marty is no longer solving Sudokus.

That means for all practical purposes that this forum has no admin or moderator, right?
But Sam - the owner - will take care of that, won't he?

And even if not ... why not continue on Jason's site? Yes, I agree with Keith that the vibe there is quite different from here, but I remember seeing a few AICs here in the Other Puzzles section, too Wink

My Helmut's Sudoku Helper is a good tool if you just want a hint to where the next steps could be. So, in a very natural way, it helps those who are stuck and need help: click on the first aid icon and find the next step.
But the vast majority of posts on dailysudoku are not calls for help! they start with: "I've found this solution: ...". Which is great! People use their brains ... no need for helpers, electronic or otherwise. And they invite comment.

I fondly remember the dialogues we had about solving techniques, some rare ones like the m-wing or the wing loop, or some very common ones like the "transport".
This kind of communication is profoundly human, and it shoud have a place. Jason's site does not have any rules that prohibit decent human interaction. Like any house, it needs to be personalized by its inhabitants. Why not by dailysudoku verterans?

Helmut (Nataraj)
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nataraj wrote:

That means for all practical purposes that this forum has no admin or moderator, right?
But Sam - the owner - will take care of that, won't he?

Helmut (Nataraj)


Helmut, I am an Administrator, though my name is not shown.

From what I understand from Marty, he is still doing some user administration, though not actively participating in the Forum.

Keith
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enxio27



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Things I Maybe Should Not Say Reply with quote

keith wrote:
enxio27 wrote:
There is another forum, more active than this one, that Helmut is a member of (under the name Nataraj). The forum is called The New Sudoku Players' Forum and can be found at http://forum.enjoysudoku.com . It's run by Jason Linhart and has archives of other forums and resources that have gone off the Web. I have no intention of stealing traffic from here, but if this forum dies, also, there is an alternative.

HTH

I have pointed that out before. In my opinion, the discussion is much less courteous, and it is dominated by computer programmers to whom everything is an AIC.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you visited that forum? I don't think I've ever seen any discourteous discussion, and I've frequented that forum for quite a long time now (since the demise of the Sudocue forum, the original Sudoku Players' forum and the Sudoku Programmers' forum--close to ten years ago now).

I will grant you that much of the discussion is devoted to programming and the Patterns Game (which is quite fun, even for a beginner, if you have time for it). However, I've never had an issue with posting other puzzles there for discussion, assistance, etc., and occasionally a gattai or other variant (my preferences) makes its way there.

Another forum that is still going, although less active, is Richard Broughton's SudokuSolver forum. Much of the focus there is Killer puzzles, although, again, they are quite happy to discuss other puzzles there. Unfortunately, the owner isn't very active these days, busy with other interests, although he does keep the forum running and quickly cleans up any spam that manages to creep in.

Sadly, the sudoku scene will never again be what it was in its heyday, 10-12 years ago now. That ship has long since sailed. I sometimes find it a bit comical (in a sad sort of way) how many are still trying to make a fast buck (or other currency) from publishing new sudoku books and phone apps.

I for one will never stop doing sudoku, although I'm nowhere near the level of many of the regulars here or on the other forums. I can generate my own vanilla puzzles (as if I didn't already have a HUGE collection from various sites), and I'm working on learning how to generate variants and gattai, in case all the forums should dry up and disappear someday.

Oh, and by the way, "HTH" is a common Internet/text abbreviation for "hope this helps".

enxio27
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enxio27



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems we revisit this topic every couple of years around this time of year:

http://www.dailysudoku.com/sudoku/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7807

http://www.dailysudoku.com/sudoku/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6507
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enxio27,

I generally agree, but the concerns over this site go back well over a decade. Sam Griffiths-Jones is simply not interested in the discussion list. He has told me that.

It was a battle to get Sam to do something about people being able to post without being registered. Remember all the spam about ?? cupboards in Scotland?

Now, we get 90% or more of the subscribers are not interested in Sudoku. They only want to register because they can put a web site in their profile, to increase their visibility on Google. We have asked Sam to not allow web sites in profiles, to no avail.

Just go to the memberlist, sort it from new to old, and look at the number of subscribers who have websites that are irrelevant to Sudoku but have zero posts.

I am, frankly, quite tired of this, and have simply stopped approving new subscribers. If you, or anyone else, would volunteer as an administrator, I'd like the help. But, it is almost impossible to get Sam to change any of the site's settings, or to correct the installation of the software or update it.

I don't think there is any point in me posting what I think are disrespectful posts from other sites. But, the Players' Forum is just not interested in patterns used by pencil and paper solvers.

Best wishes,

Keith
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enxio27



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keith wrote:
I generally agree, but the concerns over this site go back well over a decade. Sam Griffiths-Jones is simply not interested in the discussion list. He has told me that.

It was a battle to get Sam to do something about people being able to post without being registered. Remember all the spam about ?? cupboards in Scotland?

I do remember! That's frustrating that Sam refuses to do anything or to give you the tools to do anything. I've been in that exact same situation on another forum I used to admin (unrelated to Sudoku). And I had a language barrier to deal with, as well (the forum owner read very little English, so I would have to use an online translator to translate all communications to Russian in order to get a response out of him).

Quote:
Now, we get 90% or more of the subscribers are not interested in Sudoku. They only want to register because they can put a web site in their profile, to increase their visibility on Google. We have asked Sam to not allow web sites in profiles, to no avail.

Just go to the memberlist, sort it from new to old, and look at the number of subscribers who have websites that are irrelevant to Sudoku but have zero posts.

I am, frankly, quite tired of this, and have simply stopped approving new subscribers. If you, or anyone else, would volunteer as an administrator, I'd like the help. But, it is almost impossible to get Sam to change any of the site's settings, or to correct the installation of the software or update it.

Are you able to ban/delete the previously approved subscribers who clearly have no interest in the forum other than google hits on their Web sites?

Quote:
I don't think there is any point in me posting what I think are disrespectful posts from other sites. But, the Players' Forum is just not interested in patterns used by pencil and paper solvers.

I'm sorry you felt unwelcome there. Sadly, if this forum goes down, the New Sudoku Players' forum is our best remaining option. Perhaps, if everyone involved in discussions here were to simply migrate those same discussions over there, things could continue on there as they are here, with or without the participation of those who already frequent the other forum.

In the mean time, I hope that someone is archiving all of the good material here, just in case.
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are you able to ban/delete the previously approved subscribers who clearly have no interest in the forum other than google hits on their Web sites?

It's possible, but difficult. Also, you have no idea what the intent is when you approve a subscriber. The solution would be to not allow web sites in profiles, which Sam won't do.
Quote:
Perhaps, if everyone involved in discussions here were to simply migrate those same discussions over there, things could continue on there as they are here, with or without the participation of those who already frequent the other forum.

That is exactly Helmut's sentiment. I also think that Jason Lion would set up a sub-forum for us.
Quote:
In the mean time, I hope that someone is archiving all of the good material here, just in case.

I don't think so. But, there is software that will copy an entire website. You just need time and bandwidth, and a decent, big enough hard drive.

I copied Ruud's Sudopedia before it was trashed by spammers and hackers, and I believe that was some help in restoring what you can now find on the web.

Perhaps someone will volunteer to copy the Daily Sudoku discussion forum every six months or so?

Keith
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enxio27



Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keith wrote:
Quote:
Are you able to ban/delete the previously approved subscribers who clearly have no interest in the forum other than google hits on their Web sites?

It's possible, but difficult. Also, you have no idea what the intent is when you approve a subscriber.

Actuallly, I was referring to the older subscribers (more than a year) with no posts and with an unrelated Web site in their profile. Banning would probably not be enough--you would have to be able to delete their whole profile, or at least the Web site field.

Quote:
Quote:
Perhaps, if everyone involved in discussions here were to simply migrate those same discussions over there, things could continue on there as they are here, with or without the participation of those who already frequent the other forum.

That is exactly Helmut's sentiment. I also think that Jason Lion would set up a sub-forum for us.

I have no doubt that he would.

Quote:
I copied Ruud's Sudopedia before it was trashed by spammers and hackers, and I believe that was some help in restoring what you can now find on the web.

Much appreciated, I know, and I believe it's being hosted now on Jason's site, along with the archive of the Sudoku Programmers' forum.

Quote:
Perhaps someone will volunteer to copy the Daily Sudoku discussion forum every six months or so?

I very much hope so. Unfortunately, I lack the knowledge to do it.
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3340
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a son! I'll ask him about copying web sites.

Keith
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