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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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 Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: Impossible Menneske No. 10 |
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By the Menneske rating, the 3rd hardest so far, after 7 and 6. We shall see.
| Code: | M6912646 Impossible (6211)
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 2 . | . . . | . 9 . |
| . . . | . 7 4 | 8 . . |
| 4 3 . | . . 1 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . 6 | 7 . . | . . . |
| . . . | . 2 . | . . . |
| . . . | . . 9 | . . 3 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 3 | . . . | . 8 . |
| . 1 . | 9 5 . | 6 . . |
| . 5 . | . . . | . 7 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
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Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
Keith |
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JC Van Hay
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 494
Location: Charleroi, Belgium
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:37 am Post subject: |
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#1. USDE; UP24
r5c1=3,r3c5=9
LC(2) :=> -2r79c4.r6c78
[Optional] Finned XWing(3C47) :=> -3r1c56; LC(3) :=> -3r9c4
LC(8 ) :=> -8r56c13
Solving the only strongest digit 3 ...
| Code: | +---------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+
| 1678 2 1578 | 568(3) 68(3) 568(3) | 57(134) 9 567(14) |
| 169 69 1(59) | 6-3(25) 7 4 | 8 36(125) 6(125) |
| 4 3 578 | 2568 9 1 | 257 256 2567 |
+---------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+
| 5 48(9) 6 | 7 1348 38 | 14(29) 14(2) 148(29) |
| 3 4789 147(9) | 14568 2 568 | 14579 1456 1456789 |
| 127 478 1247 | 14568 1468 9 | 1457 1456 3 |
+---------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+
| 2679 4679 3 | 146 146 267 | 12459 8 12459 |
| 278 1 2478 | 9 5 2378 | 6 234 (24) |
| 2689 5 248(9) | 1468 13468 2368 | 12349 7 (1249) |
+---------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+ |
#2. Chain[10] presented as either an
nrczt-braid[10] written as a Transfer Matrix ...
| Code: | 3r1c456=3r1c7
4r1c7=4r1c9
4r8c9=2r8c9
2r2c9=2r2c8[=2r2c4]
2r4c9=2r4c8=2r4c7
1r1c7=1r1c9=======1r2c8=======1r2c9
4r9c9=2r9c9=============1r9c9=9r9c9
9r4c7=======9r4c9=9r4c2
9r9c3=9r5c3=9r2c3
5r2c8=======5r2c9=============5r2c3=5r2c4 |
-> 3r1c456=2r2c4(z-candidate)=5r2c4 :=> -3r2c4; UP36
or, in "English"
r2c4=3->r1c7=3,r1c9=4,r8c9=2=r2c8=r4c7; r2c9=1,r9c9=9=r4c2=r2c3; no 5 in Row 2 :=> -3r2c4; UP36
#3. NP(24)r8c89 + [LC(6) :=> NP(25)r3c78];UP81 |
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TNova
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: Bromley, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about this puzzle being easier than any of the others in the series. The rating of 11,000+ that Hudoku gave it is - by a long way - the highest difficulty rating that I've ever seen. Previous was about 6,000.
Yes I solved it without using Hodoku's aids, but only after two or three hours of ugly XY chain type eliminations. And I had to trust a NICE loop to really get me on my way. I don't really understand why they always work, but work they do. I must go and read the theory.
I love this type of puzzle though - maybe this could become the board for really nasty puzzles. Thanks to Keith for posting it.
All the best, Tim |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| TNova wrote: | I don't know about this puzzle being easier than any of the others in the series. The rating of 11,000+ that Hudoku gave it is - by a long way - the highest difficulty rating that I've ever seen. Previous was about 6,000.
Yes I solved it without using Hodoku's aids, but only after two or three hours of ugly XY chain type eliminations. And I had to trust a NICE loop to really get me on my way. I don't really understand why they always work, but work they do. I must go and read the theory.
I love this type of puzzle though - maybe this could become the board for really nasty puzzles. Thanks to Keith for posting it.
All the best, Tim |
Tim,
Thank you, but I might make a couple of observations:
This is a discussion board, which is what oaxen originally asked for. The value is in the discussion. The success of this forum relies on people posting and discussing solutions.
If anyone wants these puzzles to solve in isolation, just go to Menneske and choose "impossible". They do not need to have them posted here.
I am fascinated by the measures of puzzle "difficulty". Particularly for difficult puzzles they are based on some heuristic, and not on actually solving the puzzle. The variation between measures is interesting, not to mention how well they actually are valid measures. See No. 08!
I also have some idea that puzzles have a personality. I like to solve Menneskes. I have stopped doing puzzles from some other sites, not because they are too difficult, but because I do not like them. Why? I have no idea.
Keith |
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TNova
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: Bromley, UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Keith,
Thank-you for your reply. I guess I'll just stay off the forum if it's only for discussing solutions. I didn't realise that, and I'm sorry to clutter your board. I only came back to Sodoku last year after I retired - to keep my brain active. But although I think I'm still good at solving them I just can't do the sort of notation that was used earlier in this post.
All the best, Tim |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Tim,
Not at all. Comments are welcome, even if they do not spell out exactly how you solved the puzzle.
Keith |
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TNova
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: Bromley, UK
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Maybe I'll just try and learn notation, though to me it seems more difficult than the worst Sudoku. |
I was a holdout for years and just started about six months ago. It looks very intimidating but once you learn the basic principles it's not so bad. I had the good fortune of having a mentor who was willing to take the time and trouble and answer all my stupid questions. |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Ouch!
| Code: |
#0 SSTS, kite(3) => r9c4<>3
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 1678 2 1578 | 3568 68 568 | 13457 9 14567 |
| 169 69 159 | 2356 7 4 | 8 12356 1256 |
| 4 3 578 | 2568 9 1 | 257 256 2567 |
|----------------------------+----------------------------+----------------------------|
| 5 489 6 | 7 1348 38 | 1249 124 12489 |
| 3 4789 1479 | 14568 2 568 | 14579 1456 1456789 |
| 127 478 1247 | 14568 1468 9 | 1457 1456 3 |
|----------------------------+----------------------------+----------------------------|
| 2679 4679 3 | 146 146 267 | 12459 8 12459 |
| 278 1 2478 | 9 5 2378 | 6 234 24 |
| 2689 5 2489 | 1468 13468 2368 | 12349 7 1249 |
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#1 (24=3)r8c98-r2c8=(3-4)r1c7=r1c9*-(4=2)r8c9 => *r79c9<>4, r8c136<>2, r79c79<>2
#2 aahs(67)r35c9 => r1c7<>157,r1c9<>15
(67)r1c9 - (4)r1c9=r1c7
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(6)r2c9 - r3c12=(6-78)r1c1=hp(78)r13c3-(78=243)r8c398-(3)r2c8=hp(34)r1c79
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hp(67)r35c9 - (8)r5c9=r4c9-(8=3)r4c6-r4c5=r9c5-r9c7=r8c8-(3)r2c8=hp(34)r1c79
#3 h-wing (1=2)r2c9-r8c9=(2-3)r8c8=r2c8 => r2c8<>1
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oaxen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Back again from a short holiday i Morocco. Happy to see that Keith still deliver Menneske to us. In this one bivalues "3" on row 2 are promising. After a short chain it is obvious that it must be R2C8 and that in R1C9 in both cases it is a "1". After that pure basic.
Lars |
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