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MM1540 sep-27-09

 
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storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:48 am    Post subject: MM1540 sep-27-09 Reply with quote

500104002000000300000609100000000074000503000490001000304207000108000000200306008

Code:

+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . . | 1 . 4 | . . 2 |
| . . . | . . . | 3 . . |
| . . . | 6 . 9 | 1 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . . | . 7 4 |
| . . . | 5 . 3 | . . . |
| 4 9 . | . . 1 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . 4 | 2 . 7 | . . . |
| 1 . 8 | . . . | . . . |
| 2 . . | 3 . 6 | . . 8 |
+-------+-------+-------+

open in draw/play


open in andrew stuarts online solver
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After basics:
Code:

*-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5     38    367   | 1     37    4     | 6789  689   2     |
 | 9     124   1267  | 78    257   28    | 3     46    567   |
 | 78    2348  237   | 6     2357  9     | 1     48    57    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 68    13    13    | 9     26    28    | 5     7     4     |
 | 678   28    27    | 5     4     3     | 689   1689  19    |
 | 4     9     5     | 78    67    1     | 268   2368  36    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3     5     4     | 2     8     7     | 69    169   19    |
 | 1     6     8     | 4     9     5     | 27    23    37    |
 | 2     7     9     | 3     1     6     | 4     5     8     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


The Type 3 UR 19 in r57c89 forms a subset 468 including r23c8 to delete 68 from r16c8,
This opens an ER 8 with hinge in box6 and strong link in row1 to delete 8 from r5c2,
which sets up a short chain: (7)r1c5 - (7=6)r6c5 - (6)r6c9 = (6-7)r2c9 = (7)r2c4; r1c5<>7

Ted
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Myth Jellies



Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:

*-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5     38    367   | 1     37    4     | 6789  689   2     |
 | 9     124   1267  | 78    257   28    | 3     46    567   |
 | 78    2348  237   | 6     2357  9     | 1     48    57    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 68    13    13    | 9     26    28    | 5     7     4     |
 | 678   28    27    | 5     4     3     |*69+8 *169+8*19    |
 | 4     9     5     | 78    67    1     | 268   2368  36    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3     5     4     | 2     8     7     |*69   *169  *19    |
 | 1     6     8     | 4     9     5     | 27    23    37    |
 | 2     7     9     | 3     1     6     | 4     5     8     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


169-MUG in r57c789 forces 8 in r5c78 & eliminates 8s in r5c12 & r6c78 doing a fair amount of damage
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great observation Exclamation

In comparison, I picked a "daisy" while stepping on a "rose".

Ted
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arkietech



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myth Jellies wrote:
Code:

*-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5     38    367   | 1     37    4     | 6789  689   2     |
 | 9     124   1267  | 78    257   28    | 3     46    567   |
 | 78    2348  237   | 6     2357  9     | 1     48    57    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 68    13    13    | 9     26    28    | 5     7     4     |
 | 678   28    27    | 5     4     3     |*69+8 *169+8*19    |
 | 4     9     5     | 78    67    1     | 268   2368  36    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3     5     4     | 2     8     7     |*69   *169  *19    |
 | 1     6     8     | 4     9     5     | 27    23    37    |
 | 2     7     9     | 3     1     6     | 4     5     8     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*

169-MUG in r57c789 forces 8 in r5c78 & eliminates 8s in r5c12 & r6c78 doing a fair amount of damage

Is this the correct way to code this MUG in Eureka?

MUG(169)r57c789[(8)r5c7=(8)r5c8] => r5c12<>8, r6c78<>8]
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5160
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tlanglet wrote:
After basics:
Code:

*-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5     38    367   | 1     37    4     | 6789  689   2     |
 | 9     124   1267  | 78    257   28    | 3     46    567   |
 | 78    2348  237   | 6     2357  9     | 1     48    57    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 68    13    13    | 9     26    28    | 5     7     4     |
 | 678   28    27    | 5     4     3     | 689   1689  19    |
 | 4     9     5     | 78    67    1     | 268   2368  36    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3     5     4     | 2     8     7     | 69    169   19    |
 | 1     6     8     | 4     9     5     | 27    23    37    |
 | 2     7     9     | 3     1     6     | 4     5     8     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*



I used a couple of XY-Wings which I don't know if they were necessary. But my final step was the flightless 367 XY-Wing pivoted in r6c9. With pincer transport, the 7 is knocked out of r1c5.
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Asellus



Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 865
Location: Sonoma County, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arkietech wrote:
Is this the correct way to code this MUG in Eureka?

MUG(169)r57c789[(8)r5c7=(8)r5c8] => r5c12<>8, r6c78<>8]

I'm not aware of an officially "correct" way to notate, and even if there is such a way, my feeling is that any notation that is understandable is fine. And, I understand your notation.

If I were notating it, I would probably do it this way:
169DP[(8)r5c7=(8)r5c8]r57c789; r5c12<>8, r6c78<>8

For anything beyond a UR, I use "DP". But, I have no problem with "MUG":
169MUG[(8)r5c7=(8)r5c8]r57c789; r5c12<>8, r6c78<>8

I prefer to put the DP cell references after the "[]", by analogy with putting the cell references after the "()". But, I have no problem with putting them before the brackets. Either is clear and easy to understand. Heck! I would even accept (though I wouldn't do it myself):
169DPr57c789[r5c7(8)=r5c8(8)]; r5c12<>8, r6c78<>8

That's how liberal I am.
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Myth Jellies



Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Asellus; there is no official way to notate, so just get the point across. Sometimes it depends if you have a picture to go with it.

In the case above, with the picture, I would probably just put

(MUG:169#6=8)r57c789 => r5c12,r6c78 <> 8

I use the pound sign (#) to indicate count when it might not be clear. In this case it would mean a total count of 6 ones, sixes, and nines in those specified cells.
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arkietech



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to all

Using DP makes sense.
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myth Jellies wrote:
Code:

*-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 5     38    367   | 1     37    4     | 6789  689   2     |
 | 9     124   1267  | 78    257   28    | 3     46    567   |
 | 78    2348  237   | 6     2357  9     | 1     48    57    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 68    13    13    | 9     26    28    | 5     7     4     |
 | 678   28    27    | 5     4     3     |*69+8 *169+8*19    |
 | 4     9     5     | 78    67    1     | 268   2368  36    |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 3     5     4     | 2     8     7     |*69   *169  *19    |
 | 1     6     8     | 4     9     5     | 27    23    37    |
 | 2     7     9     | 3     1     6     | 4     5     8     |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


169-MUG in r57c789 forces 8 in r5c78 & eliminates 8s in r5c12 & r6c78 doing a fair amount of damage


Myth, Recently I have been looking in BUG-Lite and MUG patterns. I have not been able to find anything specific about pattern definitions but I did returned to this post.

Two issues:
1. Could your MUG also be viewed as a BUG-Lite with bivalues 69, 16 & 19?

2. Viewed as either a MUG or a BUG-Lite, the only external SIS I see is r5c1=6, which solves the puzzle.

Ted
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ronk



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tlanglet wrote:
Two issues:
1. Could your MUG also be viewed as a BUG-Lite with bivalues 69, 16 & 19?

2. Viewed as either a MUG or a BUG-Lite, the only external SIS I see is r5c1=6, which solves the puzzle.

When viewed as a BUG-Lite, it's not that simple IMO. The 9s in r5c8 and r7c8 are now extra candidates for the naked set POV, and they are also external candidates for the hidden set POV.
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronk wrote:
tlanglet wrote:
Two issues:
1. Could your MUG also be viewed as a BUG-Lite with bivalues 69, 16 & 19?

2. Viewed as either a MUG or a BUG-Lite, the only external SIS I see is r5c1=6, which solves the puzzle.

When viewed as a BUG-Lite, it's not that simple IMO. The 9s in r5c8 and r7c8 are now extra candidates for the naked set POV, and they are also external candidates for the hidden set POV.


Ron,

Once again I have demonstrated my horrible trait of jumping without looking. Embarassed
Yes, it is obvious to anyone who does look that addition candidates need to be considered when the pattern is viewed as a BUG-Lite.

My only consolation is the clean solution for the MUG pattern.

Ted
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ronk



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 397

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tlanglet wrote:
Once again I have demonstrated my horrible trait of jumping without looking. Embarassed

Yesterday I did the same twice ... here and here. Embarassed It must be something in the air. Smile
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