dailysudoku.com Forum Index dailysudoku.com
Discussion of Daily Sudoku puzzles
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Set XY_03 Puzzle 035

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    dailysudoku.com Forum Index -> Puzzles by daj
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:20 am    Post subject: Set XY_03 Puzzle 035 Reply with quote
After basics, my solver found two steps. I was able to find a workaround to prevent the second step from being an XY-Chain.

Code:
 +-----------------------+
 | 3 . 6 | 7 . . | . 5 . |
 | . 2 7 | . 1 6 | . . 3 |
 | 5 1 4 | 3 . . | . . 7 |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | 4 . 1 | 6 . . | . 7 . |
 | . 7 . | . 9 . | . . . |
 | . 6 . | . . 7 | . . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
 | 6 . . | 2 . . | . . . |
 | . 8 9 | . . . | 2 . 6 |
 +-----------------------+

Play this puzzle online at the Daily Sudoku site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storm_norm



Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 1741
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Code:
.------------------.------------------.------------------.
| 3     9     6    | 7     248   248  | 1     5     28   |
| 8     2     7    | 5     1     6    | 49    49    3    |
| 5     1     4    | 3     28    9    | 68    26    7    |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 4     35    1    | 6     235   23   | 89    7     89   |
| 2     7     358  | 18    9     34   | 3456  16    45   |
| 9     6     358  | 18    345   7    | 345   12    245  |
:------------------+------------------+------------------:
| 7     345   2    | 9     6     38   | 45    48    1    |
| 6     345   35   | 2     38    1    | 7     489   459  |
| 1     8     9    | 4     7     5    | 2     3     6    |
'------------------'------------------'------------------'

(8=9)r4c9 - (9)r4c7 = (9)r2c7 - (9=4)r2c8 - (4=8)r7c8 - (8)r7c6 = (8)r1c6; r1c1 <> 8

leaves a BUG+1 grid and places 3 in r8c2

Last edited by storm_norm on Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Starting from Norm's grid, a finned x-wing on 3 in r47c26 brings you to:
Code:

 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 3    9    6    | 7    4    28   | 1    5    28   |
 | 8    2    7    | 5    1    6    | 49   49   3    |
 | 5    1    4    | 3    28   9    | 68   26   7    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    35   1    | 6    235  23   | 89   7    89   |
 | 2    7    38   | 18   9    4    | 36   16   5    |
 | 9    6    358  | 18   35   7    | 34   12   24   |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 7    34   2    | 9    6    38   | 5    48   1    |
 | 6    345  35   | 2    38   1    | 7    489  49   |
 | 1    8    9    | 4    7    5    | 2    3    6    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*

At this point, there is a BUG+4 condition that solves the puzzle.
r4c5=3, or
r6c3=3, or
r8c2=3, or
r8c8=4.

All four conditions imply r8c5=8.

Ted
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arkietech



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't see r8c5=8 with r6c3=3? Can you help?
Code:
 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 3    9    6    | 7    4    28   | 1    5    28   |
 | 8    2    7    | 5    1    6    | 49   49   3    |
 | 5    1    4    | 3    28   9    | 68   26   7    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    35   1    | 6    235  23   | 89   7    89   |
 | 2    7    38   | 18   9    4    | 36   16   5    |
 | 9    6    358  | 18   35   7    | 34   12   24   |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 7    34   2    | 9    6    38   | 5    48   1    |
 | 6    345  35   | 2    38   1    | 7    489  49   |
 | 1    8    9    | 4    7    5    | 2    3    6    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2468
Location: Northern California Foothills
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
arkietech wrote:
I don't see r8c5=8 with r6c3=3? Can you help?
Code:
 *--------------------------------------------------*
 | 3    9    6    | 7    4    28   | 1    5    28   |
 | 8    2    7    | 5    1    6    | 49   49   3    |
 | 5    1    4    | 3    28   9    | 68   26   7    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    35   1    | 6    235  23   | 89   7    89   |
 | 2    7    38   | 18   9    4    | 36   16   5    |
 | 9    6    358  | 18   35   7    | 34   12   24   |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 7    34   2    | 9    6    38   | 5    48   1    |
 | 6    345  35   | 2    38   1    | 7    489  49   |
 | 1    8    9    | 4    7    5    | 2    3    6    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*

Dan, I did not initially see the the connection, but then "Jackpot"

(3)r6c3 - (3=4)r6c7 - (4)r6c9 = (4)r8c9 - (4=8)r7c8 - (8=3)r7c6 - (3=8)r8c5

Ted
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arkietech



Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 1834
Location: Northwest Arkansas USA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
tlanglet wrote:
(3)r6c3 - (3=4)r6c7 - (4)r6c9 = (4)r8c9 - (4=8)r7c8 - (8=3)r7c6 - (3=8)r8c5

Works for me. Thanks Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Finned X-Wing and BUG+4 were my results as well. Slightly different take on ...

Code:
 BUG+4
 [r4c5,r6c3,r8c2]=3                                      => [r4c2]=5
 [r8c8]=4 [r8c9]<>4 [r6c9]=4 [r6c7]=3 [r6c5]=5 [r6c3]<>5 => [r4c2]=5
 +-----------------------------------------------------+
 |  3    9    6    |  7    4    28   |  1    5    28   |
 |  8    2    7    |  5    1    6    |  49   49   3    |
 |  5    1    4    |  3    28   9    |  68   26   7    |
 |-----------------+-----------------+-----------------|
 |  4    35   1    |  6    25+3 23   |  89   7    89   |
 |  2    7    38   |  18   9    4    |  36   16   5    |
 |  9    6    58+3 |  18   35   7    |  34   12   24   |
 |-----------------+-----------------+-----------------|
 |  7    34   2    |  9    6    38   |  5    48   1    |
 |  6    45+3 35   |  2    38   1    |  7    89+4 49   |
 |  1    8    9    |  4    7    5    |  2    3    6    |
 +-----------------------------------------------------+
 # 34 eliminations remain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Starting from Norm's grid, a finned x-wing on 3 in r47c26 brings you to:


Code:
*--------------------------------------------------*
 | 3    9    6    | 7    4    28   | 1    5    28   |
 | 8    2    7    | 5    1    6    | 49   49   3    |
 | 5    1    4    | 3    28   9    | 68   26   7    |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 4    35   1    | 6    235  23   | 89   7    89   |
 | 2    7    38   | 18   9    4    | 36   16   5    |
 | 9    6    358  | 18   35   7    | 34   12   24   |
 |----------------+----------------+----------------|
 | 7    34   2    | 9    6    38   | 5    48   1    |
 | 6    345  35   | 2    38   1    | 7    489  49   |
 | 1    8    9    | 4    7    5    | 2    3    6    |
 *--------------------------------------------------*


An XY-Chain, as in the thing that Danny did a workaround to avoid, says that r7c2 or r8c9 must be=4, finishing the puzzle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
strmckr



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
or how about after the finned xwing brings it to here:

Code:
.-------------.-------------.-------------.
| 3  9    6   | 7   4    8-2 | 1   5   28@|
| 8  2    7   | 5   1    6  | 49  49   3  |
| 5  1    4   | 3   28   9  | 68  26   7  |
:-------------+-------------+-------------:
| 4  35   1   | 6   235  23@| 89  7    89@|
| 2  7    38  | 18  9    4  | 36  16   5  |
| 9  6    358 | 18  35   7  | 34  12   24 |
:-------------+-------------+-------------:
| 7  34   2   | 9   6    38@| 5   48@  1  |
| 6  345  35  | 2   38   1  | 7   489  49@|
| 1  8    9   | 4   7    5  | 2   3    6  |
'-------------'-------------'-------------'


use:

Death Blossom: [r7c8], -4- r148c9 {2489}, -8- r47c6 {238} => r1c6<>2 {leaves all singles}

i guess it can be viewed as an xy chain as well Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daj95376



Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 3854
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
strmckr wrote:
Death Blossom: [r7c8], -4- r148c9 {2489}, -8- r47c6 {238} => r1c6<>2 {leaves all singles}

i guess it can be viewed as an xy chain as well Sad

Hello Chris and welcome to the forum.

Most of the users here are manual solvers and it's unlikely that more than a few would ever use Death Blossom in a solution.

For me, the challenge is to find puzzles/solutions that are solvable/understandable by most.

Regards, Danny

BTW: I "look it up"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
strmckr



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a manual solver as well Smile

I usually use complex moves that few people know about...
as Im sure aware of from other sites...

{and i cant write chains correctly ever solvers help with that...}

for me a Death blossom was the simplest approach. {note: mike baker from players form created and named this years back}

2 almost locked sets.. intersection being the elimination.
or xy chain from the marked cells.....

but your correct few would ever use it Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wapati



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 472
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
strmckr wrote:
for me a Death blossom was the simplest approach.


I looked at the referenced page and believe there is a typo.
Quote:
Reversing direction will help illuminate the Death Blossom idea since we start with green “stem” cell. G8 with {3/5} must be able to see at least two ALSs which contain all its candidates. It is important that the 3 in G9 can see all of the 3’s in the yellow

That should read "G9 with {3/5}", should it not? Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
strmckr



Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
definitely a typo nice catch wapiti...

i'll leave a message for Stuart Andrews to correct it. (scanraid.com)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    dailysudoku.com Forum Index -> Puzzles by daj All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group