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Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle

 
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Denise Roberts
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

okay, i dont get this, i have so far:-

_ 8 _ | 1 9 _ | 6 _ _
_ _ _ | 2 _ 8 | 3 _ 9
9 _ 2 | _ _ 3 | _ 8 1
.............................
_ 4 _ | 7 _ 2 | _ 3 _
_ 7 _ | _ 8 _ | _ 1 _
_ 2 _ | 6 _ 9 | _ 7 _
............................
_ 9 _ | 8 _ _ | 1 _ 4
_ _ 8 | 9 _ _ | _ _ _
_ _ 7 | _ 2 1 | _ 9 _

I cannot see any logical place to go next? Am I being thick???
The hint tries to tell me to place a five in row7, column3, but that doesnt make any logical sense as there are lots of places where a five could go at this point.
HELP!!!!!
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samgj
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

Denise Roberts wrote:
_ 8 _ | 1 9 _ | 6 _ _
_ _ _ | 2 _ 8 | 3 _ 9
9 _ 2 | _ _ 3 | _ 8 1
.............................
_ 4 _ | 7 _ 2 | _ 3 _
_ 7 _ | _ 8 _ | _ 1 _
_ 2 _ | 6 _ 9 | _ 7 _
............................
_ 9 _ | 8 _ _ | 1 _ 4
_ _ 8 | 9 _ _ | _ _ _
_ _ 7 | _ 2 1 | _ 9 _


Hey Denise

From your grid it looks like row 7, col 3 can be a 3, 5 or 6. However, in the top and middle left 3x3 boxes, the 3 has to go in cols 1 or 3, which means it must go in col 2 in the bottom left 3x3 box. Similarly, the 6 must go in rows 7 and 8 in the bottom middle and right 3x3 boxes, forcing it into row 9 in the bottom left box. Which leaves 5 as the only option for row 7, col 3.

Not knowing the name for this (or indeed any) techinique means that someone else's explanation may be more useful.

Sam
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

samgj wrote:
Denise Roberts wrote:
_ 8 _ | 1 9 _ | 6 _ _
_ _ _ | 2 _ 8 | 3 _ 9
9 _ 2 | _ _ 3 | _ 8 1
.............................
_ 4 _ | 7 _ 2 | _ 3 _
_ 7 _ | _ 8 _ | _ 1 _
_ 2 _ | 6 _ 9 | _ 7 _
............................
_ 9 _ | 8 _ _ | 1 _ 4
_ _ 8 | 9 _ _ | _ _ _
_ _ 7 | _ 2 1 | _ 9 _


Hey Denise

From your grid it looks like row 7, col 3 can be a 3, 5 or 6. However, in the top and middle left 3x3 boxes, the 3 has to go in cols 1 or 3, which means it must go in col 2 in the bottom left 3x3 box. Similarly, the 6 must go in rows 7 and 8 in the bottom middle and right 3x3 boxes, forcing it into row 9 in the bottom left box. Which leaves 5 as the only option for row 7, col 3.

Not knowing the name for this (or indeed any) techinique means that someone else's explanation may be more useful.

Sam




I understand what you say with regards to the #3 being in cols 1 or 3 (never thought of that - ta!) however, the 6 according to my calcs can go in row 7,8 or 9 in the bottom right 3x3 box - so i'm still lost!!!!
Maybe I'll try it again tomorrow - I've got brain freeze - aaaah!

Thanks for your reply Sam, it's good to know someone cares!!! Laughing
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samgj
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

Denise Roberts wrote:

I understand what you say with regards to the #3 being in cols 1 or 3 (never thought of that - ta!) however, the 6 according to my calcs can go in row 7,8 or 9 in the bottom right 3x3 box - so i'm still lost!!!!


Ah -- there's a small step between. The 6 has to go in col 9 in the middle right box, and is therefore excluded from col 7 and 9 (and hence row 9) in the bottom right box.
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

samgj wrote:
Denise Roberts wrote:

I understand what you say with regards to the #3 being in cols 1 or 3 (never thought of that - ta!) however, the 6 according to my calcs can go in row 7,8 or 9 in the bottom right 3x3 box - so i'm still lost!!!!


Ah -- there's a small step between. The 6 has to go in col 9 in the middle right box, and is therefore excluded from col 7 and 9 (and hence row 9) in the bottom right box.



So, after a couple of hours of shopping (therapy!!!!), I've come back, and it all makes sense!!! Tee hee.....can you tell I'm a beginner? NOOOOO! Shocked
Thanks Sam, may your Bank Holiday Mondays always peaceful from now and forever more! Wink
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keith



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3178
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Harder than hard? Reply with quote

Sam,

Maybe I am a little off my game today, but I found the May 1 puzzle to be harder than most.

Keith
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crick
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm    Post subject: may 1st puzzle Reply with quote

I would agree, it did seem very hard. Without going into all the hoary old arguments of 'how do you grade a puzzle', and 'what is easy for one person is hard for another', the grading of these puzzles does seem to be getting rather eratic. Unless of course I am becoming senile, which is quite possible.
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ravel



Joined: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Monday May 1st 2006 puzzle Reply with quote

samgj wrote:

Not knowing the name for this (or indeed any) techinique means that someone else's explanation may be more useful.


For those, who are interested in the names:
Since (because of the 3's in r2c7 and r3c6) in column 2 the 3 only can be in r8c2 or r9c2 of box 7 (left/bottom), it must be there and cannot go to other cells of that box (r7c1,r7c3,r8c1,r9c1). This is called box/box interaction or locked candidates 2.
Since (because of the 6 in r1c7) the 6 in box 6 (middle/right) can only be in column 9, it must be there and cannot be elsewhere in this column, in this case not in r8c9 or r9c9. This is called box/line interaction or locked candidates 1.
So (because of the 6's in r6c4 and r1c7 and the latter) the 6 in row 9 must be in r9c1 or r9c2, which gives another box/box interaction - it cannot go to the rest of box 7 (bottom/left).

Since both are elementary techniques, i understand the low rating (by a program). But the problem is that some singles or interactions are much harder to spot than others (and in this case also one depends on the other and all 3 give a single), what most programs do not take into account (is not easy also).
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guest
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:37 pm    Post subject: May 1st puzzle Reply with quote

i've only done 2 of these (hard) puzzles.....and this was by far the (hardest)..... i've doing better on May 2nd very hard puzzle then this one.
I finally had to take a hint. And from there I was good. I'm done this one now. But i fell guilty for cheating.

back to the drawing board.
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