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March 12 VH

 
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Marty R.



Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5064
Location: Rochester, NY, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: March 12 VH Reply with quote

Where are the usual thread starters? Laughing

I never looked for X-Wings and Skyscrapers. Just looking for other wings, I didn't notice a one-stepper and used two XY-Wings, 458 and 564.
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cgordon



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I never looked for X-Wings and Skyscrapers. Just looking for other wings, I didn't notice a one-stepper and used two XY-Wings, 458 and 564.

Marty: I looked for everything but xy wings cos I'm xy-wing challenged. But still ended up with the same solution as you.
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a one step solution using an "almost" xy-wing.

Code:
  *-----------------------------------------------------------*
 | 35    7     6     | 248   14    1248  | 9     35    12    |
 | 35    8     1     | 256   9     236   | 2356  7     4     |
 | 2     9     4     | 567   1356  1367  | 356   8     135   |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 479   45    578   | 3     2     48    | 1     459   6     |
 | 49    36    2     | 1     4-6   5     | 7     349   8     |
 | 1     36    58    |#46=8  7     9     | 235   345   235   |
 |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
 | 47    2     57    |#45    13    13    | 8     6     9     |
 | 6     45    9     | 2457  8     247   | 35    1     357   |
 | 8     1     3     | 9    #56    67    | 4     2     57    |
 *-----------------------------------------------------------*


AXY-wing (45-6) vertex (45)r7c4, pincers (46)r6c4 & (56)r9c5 with fin (8)r6c4 (marked with #)
If xy-wing is true (r6c4=46): r5c5<>6=4
If fin is true then r6c4=8, then r6c3<>8=5, then r7c3<>5, then r7c4=5, then r9c5<>5=6, then r5c5<>6=4

Ted

[A friendly PM pointed out a typo that I edited marked in red: was r7c5, corrected to r7c4.]


Last edited by tlanglet on Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cgordon



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ted: I don't really get that "almost xy wing". Why does R6C4 have to be a 46 or an 8 - why not a 48 or a 68. And if one has to follow on with all those "ifs" - is it really a one stepper?
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tlanglet



Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 2461
Location: Northern California Foothills

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgordon wrote:
Ted: I don't really get that "almost xy wing". Why does R6C4 have to be a 46 or an 8 - why not a 48 or a 68. And if one has to follow on with all those "ifs" - is it really a one stepper?


I am sure that others can provide the fundamental math/logic explanation, but here is my "working" view.

In fact, r6c4 does NOT have to be a 46 or an 8, but it MAY be treated as a 46 or an 8! If you prefer, you could also view it as a 48 and a 6 or 68 and a 4. Any grouping of digits within a cell may be formed including each digit individually. Grouping r6c4=46 or r6c4=8 is useful in this puzzle since it then provides part of a xy-wing pattern.

Grouping of cells in an integral part of handling Type n URs. Consider the following Type 3 UR pattern.
Code:
+--------------+
|  -   -    -  |
| 12   -   123 |
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+
| 12   -   124 |
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+

In this case, we treat the cells as

Code:
+--------------+
|  -   -    -  |
| 12   -   12=3|
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+
| 12   -   12=4|
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
|  -   -    -  |
+--------------+

which allows us to form a (34) pseudocell.

Again, I can't provide the gory details as to why you can group digits in any arbitrary manner, but you may. Simply group them in the way that is beneficial to you; just remember that the implication of using all the digits must be considered.

Hope this helps a little bit............

Ted
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peterj



Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgordon wrote:
Why does R6C4 have to be a 46 or an 8 - why not a 48 or a 68.

r6c4 is never going to "be" 46 ... or 48 or 68 for that matter. It is going to be exactly one of the candidate set {468}. It is not neccesary to consider every permutation of pairs in the candidate set, only to make sure each candidate occurs at least once in the streams you consider.

In "almost pattern" logic one of the digits (the "fin") is usually the start of some chain or other.. this leaves a reduced candidate set that matches a shortcut we think of as a "pattern" e.g. xywing in this case.

In "kraken" logic each digit is usually considered one at a time - which you could do in this case by following each digit after the fin down to each pincer of the wing.

(I saw an unusual case recently where {ABC} could be treated as {AB} to make an xy-wing and {BC} to make a w-wing. This is fine even though B is used twice - it just means if you followed the kraken logic you have two chains to make the elimination starting with B.)
Enough....!
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cgordon



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ted and Peterj - I appreciate the detailed responses - but to be honest, for me, these solutions go from fun to painful. In fact after 4 years Im even wondering whether the Daily Sudukos even need a forum since the daily solutions are invariably basic "wings and things" - and the more complex solutions generate a very minimal and esoteric response.


Sorry - just whingin'
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peterj



Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgordon, I agree with you. The Daily VHs really lack variety - and finding a "different" solution often involves "unnatural acts"!
I think Danny's moderates and old-VHs are a well judged step-up.
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cgordon



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 769
Location: ontario, canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[
Quote:
cgordon, I agree with you. The Daily VHs really lack variety - and finding a "different" solution often involves "unnatural acts"!


I agree with you too Peter J - though it's been a while since I was involved in unnatural acts - at least a week!

I think I am gonna shift my focus to daj or others.

Cheers, Craig
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