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oaxen
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 96
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 Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: Cheating? |
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Am I cheating - or why am I always successful solving advanced puzzles?
My method after all the basics:
Find two equal numbers in a row or a column, where they only are represented twice. Mostly there are more alternaties, but it is easy to see where i can follow a thread as long as possible. I take one of these numbers, and now it again is easy to eliminate alternatives and find correct numbers on other places.
Sometimes i can go on for a happy ending - if not it is obvious that the other box not chosen in the first place must be correct. OK, I take that and finalize th game. If the puzzle is very advanced may be I in the first selection can´t go further, meaning that I from that point have to make a secondary guess and go on as above mentioned (now for the moment 25% chance). It can be a lot of work doing this, but is it cheat?
Other complicated solving techniques also involve a lot of guessing where to find an xy-wing, swordfish or something
??????????
Oaxen |
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Marty R.
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 5770
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hi oaxen,
I don't think "cheating" is an appropriate concept here. Cheating might be a valid concept in a competition if one breaks the rules. But just doing puzzles is another thing. These puzzles are intended for our amusement and anything we do with them is fine.
There are techniques that are more satisfying than others. For example, trial-and-error techniques are not satisfying to many, and many, if not most, prefer not to use them. But again, there's no cheating, just solving puzzles in any way that pleases the player. |
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sudokutips
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 2
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| No I don't think you are cheating. Sounds like you have a good strategy. |
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ttt
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 42
Location: vietnam
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | coly013
....9..5..1.....3...23..7....45...7.8.....2.......64...9..1.....8..6......54....7
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 367 3467 3678 | 12678 9 12478 | 168 5 12468 |
| 5679 1 6789 | 2678 24578 2478 | 689 3 24689 |
| 569 456 2 | 3 458 148 | 7 14689 14689 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 12369 236 4 | 5 238 12389 | 13689 7 13689 |
| 8 3567 13679 | 179 347 13479 | 2 169 13569 |
| 123579 2357 1379 | 12789 2378 6 | 4 189 13589 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 23467 9 367 | 278 1 23578 | 3568 2468 3468 |
| 12347 8 137 | 279 6 23579 | 1359 1249 1349 |
| 1236 236 5 | 4 238 2389 | 13689 12689 7 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
coly008
...1....87.......9..3.9.5....9.3...5.....23.....4..6....6.8..5.47...1...2........
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| 569 24569 245 | 1 24567 34567 | 247 23467 8 |
| 7 124568 12458 | 23568 2456 34568 | 124 12346 9 |
| 168 12468 3 | 2678 9 4678 | 5 12467 12467 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 168 12468 9 | 678 3 678 | 12478 12478 5 |
| 1568 14568 14578 | 56789 1567 2 | 3 14789 147 |
| 1358 12358 12578 | 4 157 5789 | 6 12789 127 |
|-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------|
| 139 139 6 | 2379 8 3479 | 12479 5 12347 |
| 4 7 58 | 23569 256 1 | 289 268 236 |
| 2 13589 158 | 35679 4567 345679 | 14789 14678 13467 |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------* |
Ah… ha! Let try above puzzles and tell me know how long you solve them…
I can solve them around 15’ BY LOGIC 
Good Luck…!
ttt |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:28 am Post subject: Re: Cheating? |
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| oaxen wrote: | Am I cheating - or why am I always successful solving advanced puzzles?
My method after all the basics:
Find two equal numbers in a row or a column, where they only are represented twice. Mostly there are more alternaties, but it is easy to see where i can follow a thread as long as possible. I take one of these numbers, and now it again is easy to eliminate alternatives and find correct numbers on other places.
Sometimes i can go on for a happy ending - if not it is obvious that the other box not chosen in the first place must be correct. OK, I take that and finalize th game. If the puzzle is very advanced may be I in the first selection can´t go further, meaning that I from that point have to make a secondary guess and go on as above mentioned (now for the moment 25% chance). It can be a lot of work doing this, but is it cheat?
Other complicated solving techniques also involve a lot of guessing where to find an xy-wing, swordfish or something
??????????
Oaxen |
Oaxen,
I have a better method. It is called Adrianne's Thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariadne%27s_thread_%28logic%29
Start with any possibility. If that does not work, go back and pick another possibility. I am sure the Wikipedia article will reassure all of us that this is a logical scientific method for Sudoku, not trial and error.
I think this method is better than yours, because it is ALWAYS successful, AND does not require any starting logic to pick the candidates.
"Cheating" would be looking at the answer (end solution), which I assume you do not use as part of your method.
I am pleased that you have started a discussion thread where others can contribute to your method.
Keith |
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peterj
Joined: 26 Mar 2010
Posts: 974
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cheating? |
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| oaxen wrote: | | Am I cheating - or why am I always successful solving advanced puzzles? |
Sudoku is one of those pasttimes where the journey is more important than the destination. I always wonder why newspapers insist on publishing the "solution" to Sudokus - I don't care what the solution is, it is not interesting. What matters is how you get there!
If you enjoy the journey that's all that matters, at one level - but at another level some enjoy sharing that journey and some enjoy the journey having an elegance to its logic. The criticism of "trial and error" methods is that it is not a particularly interesting journey and doesn't really benefit from being shared. The criticism of "fancy logic" methods is that they are unneccessarily complex (from the point of view of finding a solution) - some might say "intellectual masturbation"!
But for me there is a tiny grain of beauty in a logical solution that is worth the effort and never appears in a trial and error approach. But each to his own and at the end of the day it's just an inconsequential little puzzle. |
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keith
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 3355
Location: near Detroit, Michigan, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:30 am Post subject: |
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peterj,
Well said! If I may add:
> some enjoy sharing that journey and some enjoy the journey
> having an elegance to its logic.
Some enjoy learning about others' journeys, so as to improve their own future journeys.
Keith |
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