| View previous topic :: View next topic | 
	
	
		| Author | Message | 
	
		| crunched 
 
 
 Joined: 05 Feb 2008
 Posts: 168
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: May 21, 08 vh |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Wow the vh was the easiest I ever had. Took 10.5 minutes to solve, and I worked without trying to be quick. I used 1 UR. No wings, and nothing clever---as if I were clever anyway!
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| kragzy 
 
 
 Joined: 01 May 2007
 Posts: 112
 Location: Australia
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Not as snappy as you Crunchy - took me 20 mins. Two X wings and an XY wing. I avoid looking for URs (just a personal choice). Pretty straightforward all the same. 
 You must be in Australia or NZ to do the puzzle so early, or are you up very late?
 
 Cheers
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| storm_norm 
 
 
 Joined: 18 Oct 2007
 Posts: 1741
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:46 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| I really need a vacation or new eyes, something. 
 Last edited by storm_norm on Wed May 21, 2008 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Marty R. 
 
 
 Joined: 12 Feb 2006
 Posts: 5770
 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:04 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | storm_norm wrote: |  	  | using the draw/play tool, about 3 or 4 mins into the puzzle I came to this situation...no, all basics are not done in this grid, they don't need to be to complete it,  that is the advantage of the marks and the tool. 
 
  	  | Code: |  	  | .---------------------.---------------------.---------------------. | 6      79     89    | 3478   48     5     | 3489   1      2     |
 | 178    127    4     | 378    9      2378  | 38     6      5     |
 | 58     3      2589  | 48     6      1     | 489    489    7     |
 :---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
 | 1578   179    6     | 1389   2      389   | 189    5789   4     |
 | 178    12479  289   | 1489   5      4689  | 1289   2789   3     |
 | 3      1249   2589  | 1489   7     #489   | 6      2589  #89    |
 :---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
 | 4      6      7     | 2      1     #89    | 5      3     #89    |
 | 2      8      1     | 5      3      49    | 7      49     9     |
 | 9      5      3     | 6      48     478   | 248    248    1     |
 '---------------------'---------------------'---------------------'
 | 
 
 very easy to see Type 1 UR, ( marked - # ) means that the {8,9} can be removed from r6c6.  and it was done.  total of about 5 mins.
 | 
 That was an accident Norm, as UR theory is based on the four corners being in two boxes; you have four boxes there.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| storm_norm 
 
 
 Joined: 18 Oct 2007
 Posts: 1741
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:12 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| the x-wing and the xy-wing attack the same cell in r9c8, the xy-wing {4,8,9} removes the 8 and the x-wing on 4's removes the 4 leaving a 2. 
 and that solves it.
 
 thanx marty.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Johan 
 
 
 Joined: 25 Jun 2007
 Posts: 206
 Location: Bornem  Belgium
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| The <48> remote pair (abcd) was the crunching point for me, it deletes <4> and <8> in R9C8 
 
  	  | Code: |  	  | +-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+ | 6         79        89  | 37       c 48       5   | 348      1          2   |
 | 178       17        4   | 37         9        2   | 38       6          5   |
 | 5         3         2   | 48 b       6        1   | 9      a 48         7   |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
 | 178       179       6   | 89         2        3   | 18       5          4   |
 | 18        24        89  | 489        5        6   | 128      7          3   |
 | 3         24        5   | 1          7        48  | 6        289        89  |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
 | 4         6         7   | 2          1        89  | 5        3          89  |
 | 2         8         1   | 5          3        49  | 7        49         6   |
 | 9         5         3   | 6        d 48       7   | 248      2-[48]     1   |
 +-------------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
 | 
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| crunched 
 
 
 Joined: 05 Feb 2008
 Posts: 168
 
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | kragzy wrote: |  	  | Not as snappy as you Crunchy - took me 20 mins. Two X wings and an XY wing. I avoid looking for URs (just a personal choice). Pretty straightforward all the same. 
 You must be in Australia or NZ to do the puzzle so early, or are you up very late?
 
 Cheers
 | 
 
 I never looked for the UR. It was just lying there before my eyes. I take whatever I find; I am not proud. Having said that, somebody said that the  89 UR is not a real UR because the 89s are in 4 boxes. So did I just get lucky when I believed it was a UR?
 
 As for doing the puzzle early: I am in Oklahoma, but if I xx my computer to (for example) Perth time, the cyber time machine takes me to tomorrow.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| nataraj 
 
 
 Joined: 03 Aug 2007
 Posts: 1048
 Location: near Vienna, Austria
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Maybe it's just the effect of the Italian wine, but the "UR" does not look like a valid UR to me.  I think a valid UR must be in two boxes, not in four. 
 Anyways, I did not take that route, but went the coloring way:
 
 x-wing 8 cols 6 and 9 rmoves 8 from r6c8
 kite 8 row 3 col 5 removes 8 from r9c8
 xwing 4 cols 5 and 7 makes r9c8=2 and solves the puzzle.
 
 
 ___
 
 edit: oops, I see now that Marty posted the same about UR.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| cgordon 
 
 
 Joined: 04 May 2007
 Posts: 769
 Location: ontario, canada
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:53 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| I spotted this UR before I completed the basics: It stuck out like a sore thumb.  But if I take the basics to fruition, I end up with the second grid. Could someone pls explain if the second position is a UR. I don’t see a Deadly Pattern. Is this a case of basics eliminating potential solutions? 
 Edited Note:
 Seems I forgot that URs cannot be in four boxes. Had to be reminded - see below. So I've removed irrelevant grids to avoid further shame and embarrassment.
 
 Last edited by cgordon on Wed May 21, 2008 7:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| stevieboy 
 
 
 Joined: 25 Jan 2008
 Posts: 31
 Location: Michigan
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Solved it online in about 3 minutes....the UR that everyone's talking about was the only thing I needed to do, to continue on. 
 BTW, all that stuff I "rambled" on about a couple of weeks ago (M-Wings, W-Wings, etc)...I don't seem to need to look for these anymore, at least on the puzzles I've been doing; usually, UR, XYZ-Wings, or XY-Wings seem to do the trick.
 
 I do have a question on solving these online, however - when the "auto-sweep" is on, how can we eliminate candidates from cells that (we know) don't belong there?  "Shift" or "Ctrl" don't seem to individualize notations in cells.  Is there another way to do this, other then USING notations?
 
 I have to visualize cell(s) without candidates that I know, shouldn't be there.
 
 Thanks.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| cgordon 
 
 
 Joined: 04 May 2007
 Posts: 769
 Location: ontario, canada
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | Quote: |  	  | how can we eliminate candidates from cells that (we know) don't belong there? | 
 Marty showed me that.   Press Control + the number you want to knock off.  You'll be down to 30 seconds.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Earl 
 
 
 Joined: 30 May 2007
 Posts: 677
 Location: Victoria, KS
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: VH 5-21 |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Coloring in 8's eliminates the 8 in R9C5 and solves the puzzle. The apparent UR is not valid, even though it works!.
 
 Earl
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| cgordon 
 
 
 Joined: 04 May 2007
 Posts: 769
 Location: ontario, canada
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				| Earl said:  	  | Quote: |  	  | The apparent UR is not valid | 
 
 But it's definitely a UR when the basics reach the position shown in my first grid above.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Marty R. 
 
 
 Joined: 12 Feb 2006
 Posts: 5770
 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | Quote: |  	  | The <48> remote pair (abcd) was the crunching point for me, it deletes <4> and <8> in R9C8 | 
 I used the same method, but didn't write about it. After doing it with pencil and paper, I did it online so I could post a grid, but online I couldn't get rid of the 9 in r3c8.
 
 
  	  | Quote: |  	  | But it's definitely a UR when the basics reach the position shown in my first grid above. | 
 
 It might be an "R", but URs must be in two boxes or, stated another way, they must be in one chute.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| cgordon 
 
 
 Joined: 04 May 2007
 Posts: 769
 Location: ontario, canada
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | Quote: |  	  | It might be an "R", but URs must be in two boxes or, stated another way, they must be in one chute. | 
 
 Geez I already knew that - how did I overlook it.  Gonna xx to a weaker beer that doesn't destroy so many brain cells.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| Marty R. 
 
 
 Joined: 12 Feb 2006
 Posts: 5770
 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | cgordon wrote: |  	  |  	  | Quote: |  	  | It might be an "R", but URs must be in two boxes or, stated another way, they must be in one chute. | 
 
 Geez I already knew that - how did I overlook it.  Gonna xx to a weaker beer that doesn't destroy so many brain cells.
 | 
 
 For you, I'd try a lite: Labatt, Molson or Sleeman.
  |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		| cgordon 
 
 
 Joined: 04 May 2007
 Posts: 769
 Location: ontario, canada
 
 | 
			
				|  Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: |   |  
				| 
 |  
				|  	  | Quote: |  	  | For you, I'd try a lite: Labatt, Molson or Sleeman. | 
 
 Thanks Marty.  Though I'm not a huge beer drinker.  I usually quit after two.  Sometimes two-thirty.
 |  | 
	
		| Back to top |  | 
	
		|  | 
	
		|  |